Curse

killer toast · Jan 15, 2006, 11:03 PM // 23:03

how did he do that? if more people know this they wont buy unid weapons
plus since im almost r6 me=pwnsauce

Akhilleus · Jan 15, 2006, 11:12 PM // 23:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by killer toast

how did he do that? if more people know this they wont buy unid weapons
plus since im almost r6 me=pwnsauce

all he had to have said, is what i said a while back;
"there is a method in which to determine a weapons stats before its identified"
problem solved.
but explaining how its done, merely enhances the ability of people to scam others, especially since the vast majority of GW players will still not know about this technique, even if its posted and spammed, new players and casual players will most likely not know.
and the majority of unid weapons are not bought from chinese farmers, they are bought from people who come back form a friendly fow run and find something they wanna make a quick 5k off of. and now those of them who read this can knowingly scam innocent players, and for the honest people who sell unids, they may be lobbed in with the group of dishonest people, and their items will be harder to sell.
anet already knows about this bug, as quite a few people have reported it, so all hes done is make matters worse.
Good work, bucko.

killer toast · Jan 15, 2006, 11:18 PM // 23:18

ya but not many people buy unid and the ones that do already know they going to probably get screwed over with what they buy.

Malice Black · Jan 15, 2006, 11:45 PM // 23:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akhilleus

i too think it needs to be nerfed, but i think you should be banned for making it public.
this is used for 1 purpose and 1 purpose only; people selling unid weapons sell them knowing they are worthless, and the buyer unsuspectingly buys the item in the hopes it will turn out good, only to descover they wasted their money. so good job on assisting countless people to scam others.

personaly i dont think a ban is in order but i think this post should be deleted as it will only create more dishonest traders.

i do think this kind of testing should be nerfed

as for ppl wanting to know the scammers out there, PM me and i can give u a list of these

killer toast · Jan 15, 2006, 11:54 PM // 23:54

come on i think guild wars is full of honest people who wouldnt think twice of scamming someone

treserious · Jan 16, 2006, 01:08 AM // 01:08

i edited my posts to remove the information that leads to the manner in which this is done.

Vilaptca · Jan 16, 2006, 01:20 AM // 01:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akhilleus

all he had to have said, is what i said a while back;
"there is a method in which to determine a weapons stats before its identified"
problem solved.
but explaining how its done, merely enhances the ability of people to scam others, especially since the vast majority of GW players will still not know about this technique, even if its posted and spammed, new players and casual players will most likely not know.
and the majority of unid weapons are not bought from chinese farmers, they are bought from people who come back form a friendly fow run and find something they wanna make a quick 5k off of. and now those of them who read this can knowingly scam innocent players, and for the honest people who sell unids, they may be lobbed in with the group of dishonest people, and their items will be harder to sell.
anet already knows about this bug, as quite a few people have reported it, so all hes done is make matters worse.
Good work, bucko.

Actually, I kind of agree with this. I never knew about it myself, I've used unidentified items in Pre before and watched them affect me, but it never clicked that I could use this to my advantage.

As soon as I seen this thread, I took all my money and did chest runs, had at least 50 unidentified items. Started doing what he said. Luckily I didn't find anything worthwhile. So, instead of selling them all and making more than what I spent back (I do have a conscience, nor am I a jerk), I ided them all and watched all the crap come in. A lot of +dmg vs monster mods, didn't get anything that would have made me money. I ended up having about 15k less than I did before.

But the thing was, because of this I could have gone out and sold all of those items and made a lot more than what I should have back.

This does need to be fixed. I don't buy unided items usually, but everytime I have they have been junk.

Its nice that you brought this out and all, because most people may not know it, but yes, you also added the possibility for more of this to happen by telling us how to do it. I seen that you removed it, which is why I am typing this. Thanks.

ANet does need to do something about this.

anonymous · Jan 16, 2006, 01:33 AM // 01:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Frost Bite

and really whats the big deal anyway a id kit is only 100 gold.

The point isnt id kits being expensive, it was testing the item to see is it has a crap mod or a good mod. good mod= id it and sell for more, crap mod= dont id and sell for 5k, about 4.5k more than its worth,

Gildor Took · Jan 16, 2006, 01:37 AM // 01:37

Seems to me that finding out if a weapon has a +15% mod is difficult since you could have a sundering grip and the criticals could stuff up your calculations, so i guess its is a calculated risk when u buy unid weapons like chaos axes, storm bows, longswords etc.

Malchior Devenholm · Jan 16, 2006, 03:26 AM // 03:26

I'd like to propose an idea someone had earlier in this thread...

"Make it where the weapon mods dont go into effect until identified"

This aint my credit, check page 1 for the dudes name

fiery · Jan 16, 2006, 03:28 AM // 03:28

people going nuts for fortitude weapons now.....

Manic Smile · Jan 16, 2006, 04:06 AM // 04:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malchior Devenholm

I'd like to propose an idea someone had earlier in this thread...

"Make it where the weapon mods dont go into effect until identified"

This aint my credit, check page 1 for the dudes name

why...it makes no sense in reality...just so people can sell Unided weapons? If it's the buying end people want...just do it D2 style...make a merchant with random item mods you can't see till you buy it. It'd level this stupid gold economy some as well

Sab · Jan 16, 2006, 05:21 AM // 05:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akhilleus

i too think it needs to be nerfed, but i think you should be banned for making it public.

I think that this should be made public, so ANet can see the outrage this has caused. If the OP had never posted this, I doubt ANet would even realise this is a problem. Perhaps this existance of this thread will result in more scamming, but I'd prefer having this fixed sooner rather than later (or never).

Shut Your Mouth · Jan 16, 2006, 05:48 AM // 05:48

Unidentified item selling happens the buyer knows there is a chance it will be a trash item. They take that risk alone. I would suggest testing it after buying then decide to ID or try to sell again if you don't think it has what you need. Reporting ppl for leveling the playing field...not sure about that one.

PS:I have never bought or sold anything unidentified. Have at times let guild members ID items to have a chance for an unlock though.

strcpy · Jan 16, 2006, 09:46 AM // 09:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manic Smile

why...it makes no sense in reality...just so people can sell Unided weapons? If it's the buying end people want...just do it D2 style...make a merchant with random item mods you can't see till you buy it. It'd level this stupid gold economy some as well

Why doesn't it make sense - because if this was "reality" a 10/10 sundering sword would be that no matter if ID'd or not? Of course, since a 10/10 sundering sword (or most of the game) doesn't make sense in reality anyway I will assume not and that you have some really kick ass non-obvious reason you are ready to share.

It seems to me that the purpose of an ID kit is to get the magical effects of an item - it is in almost every game I know of. Plus since it allows this type of scam it should be changed.

Even were there not unlocks I assumed this was the case for a long time, given what unlocks mean to so many and what the ID gives with it I really thought that there would be no way to know the mods before ID'ing the thing. I was relativly surprised it was so and kinda figured many of the "un-id" items were scams at that point. I'm usually the last to know and found out in game (and since I play exclusivly henchies for me to find out something in game is rare).

Personally I wish there was a merchant that sold mods (even if they were traders and vary prices according to supply like runes - in fact this would be the way I would do it even though as an almost pure PvE player I would prefer fixed cost - traders *should* balance it for PvE going into PvP). And, just like them, no unlocks. Then increase faction once more by maybe 1.5x and you have my perfect game. As is I still know of any other game I have liked more and got it any more correct (though others have been equal), and my opinion is just that - opinion. But hey, I need to express it sometimes

Manic Smile · Jan 16, 2006, 12:33 PM // 12:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by strcpy

Why doesn't it make sense - because if this was "reality" a 10/10 sundering sword would be that no matter if ID'd or not? Of course, since a 10/10 sundering sword (or most of the game) doesn't make sense in reality anyway I will assume not and that you have some really kick ass non-obvious reason you are ready to share.

(not necessarily refering to you)Yea, it's simple. I'm tired of stupid ass requests made just to satisfy people's greed that has no relation to anything else. It's like the lottery, of course the poor people are happy to have it but none of them are educated enough to realize it's really just a tax on the poor(anyone with an economics background knows this to be "true"). Poor uninformed GW players like buying golds with the hope of getting that perfect item but the truth to any educated player is that in most cases it will never happen(some educated rich players just have too much gold to care

or perhaps they just enjoy the thrill but the truth is most buyers are not educated). This "checking" for mods has been going on for a long time, I can't say for sure how many but most "real" unid sellers know about this...the guys who have 8+ weapons that run around trying to sell them. Most non farmer honest players simply id the damn thing. Give me one good reason why you need unided weapons to stay in this game that cannot be solved by a merchat as I suggested.

Besides just because we use our imagination does not mean we have to throw away our logic. Sundering = Imagination....Unid Buying = (most cases) stupidity

Quote:

Originally Posted by strcpy

It seems to me that the purpose of an ID kit is to get the magical effects of an item - it is in almost every game I know of. Plus since it allows this type of scam it should be changed.

where did you pull that idea out of? I've seen it go both ways. In the better games(an opinon I admit but sales back me up *cough* D&D *cough*) unided weapons can be used but thier effects are unknown but still present...closest to how GW is now. Items are inheriently magical...or not. ID kits...I D E N T I F Y nothing more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by strcpy

Even were there not unlocks I assumed this was the case for a long time, given what unlocks mean to so many and what the ID gives with it I really thought that there would be no way to know the mods before ID'ing the thing. I was relativly surprised it was so and kinda figured many of the "un-id" items were scams at that point. I'm usually the last to know and found out in game (and since I play exclusivly henchies for me to find out something in game is rare).

First off this paragraph is confusing...not saying anything because I write like that sometimes but would you explain further plz?

Quote:

Originally Posted by strcpy

Personally I wish there was a merchant that sold mods (even if they were traders and vary prices according to supply like runes - in fact this would be the way I would do it even though as an almost pure PvE player I would prefer fixed cost - traders *should* balance it for PvE going into PvP). And, just like them, no unlocks. Then increase faction once more by maybe 1.5x and you have my perfect game. As is I still know of any other game I have liked more and got it any more correct (though others have been equal), and my opinion is just that - opinion. But hey, I need to express it sometimes

ok...Yes to merchant...in fact Auction House all the way but removing unlocks is stupid...all we need is a bigger rift between pvp/pve

Akhilleus · Jan 17, 2006, 08:43 AM // 08:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by LuxA

I think that this should be made public, so ANet can see the outrage this has caused. If the OP had never posted this, I doubt ANet would even realise this is a problem. Perhaps this existance of this thread will result in more scamming, but I'd prefer having this fixed sooner rather than later (or never).

i personally know of over 2 dozen people who have reported it, and again, all he had to say was that its possible, listing the details was unneccisary.

kitten · Jan 17, 2006, 10:32 AM // 10:32

I thought the method was common knowledge...

I've sold UnIDd weapons before. Usually hard to get items (to the average player), but not for outragous prices. I assume that most people buy unidentified in order to unlock things for PvP, that's what I do when I have spare gold. Some people just like the gamble. It's just as bad as stocking up on keys for chests.

I admit to testing items to see if it's something I can use, but I don't jack up a price because I know it's a +29 fortitude or whatever. I sold an Unidentified storm bow to someone yesterday for a low price. He PMd right away to share how excited he was that he got a 14%^50 req 9 gold storm bow that was 10/9 sundering and Armor +6. I was honestly happy for him. I got a some pocket change, a free inventory slot, and he got pretty much exactly what he was hoping for w/o having to empty his storage to pay for it.

(yes, I've sold 2 unid'd items for high prices for a guildie - who had set the prices for me... but that's not something i make a habit of doing... and the items were rare skinned and the market rates were comparable)

Sure, there are farmers and scammers out there, but don't start swinging a nerf bat to hurt the rest of us that aren't hurting people. If you don't like the farmers and scammers - don't buy things from them. That's the only thing that will hurt them, because they are enterprising people who will ALWAYS find a way to prevail.

strcpy · Jan 17, 2006, 11:50 AM // 11:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manic Smile

where did you pull that idea out of? I've seen it go both ways. In the better games(an opinon I admit but sales back me up *cough* D&D *cough*) unided weapons can be used but thier effects are unknown but still present...closest to how GW is now. Items are inheriently magical...or not. ID kits...I D E N T I F Y nothing more.

I got that idea from years of gaming, your mileage may vary. In games that ID'ing an item meant something beyond a personal convenience those magical ID'd properties did not exist until you Id'd it. For one thing it kept this sort of thing from happening.

Quote:

First off this paragraph is confusing...not saying anything because I write like that sometimes but would you explain further plz?

Same thing I did above. Lets assume for a minute that this game is Real Life. You are walking along and find a sword stuck in a stone, curious you pull it out and wave it about. It feels like a normal sword - after all that's what you take it for. You notice that it has a nice cut to it and look rare, probably magic, but until you know how to take advantage of it you can't. After taking it around for a while you find a magick indetifier who, for some fee, notes that it grants you +infinite health and now you are the greatest warrior in the land (or who ever you sell the sword too us since you tell them the secret also).

What I wrote, I think, makes sense from this point of view. Given how important unlocks are in this game, given that the only happen (in PvE) from ID'ing a blue or better item, I assumed that you could not tell the stats from an un-ID'd item - it seemed obvious that it was ripe for scamming. Once I realised this I assumed that most un-id'd sales were scams.

For most games that have something like unlocks that's the way it has worked. For things like DnD where this is a foreign concept it tends not to, but then DnD isn't the whole gaming world by any stretch of the imagination. Even then there have been quite a number of DnD games where ID's worked such that you didn't get the bonus until you ID'd it.

Quote:

ok...Yes to merchant...in fact Auction House all the way but removing unlocks is stupid...all we need is a bigger rift between pvp/pve

Woa there, I did not mean no unlocks in any case - I meant purchasing the mod didn't unlock it - same mechanics as purchasing runes. Sorry if that wasn't clear. Of all the complaints I've read the rune unlock system hasn't been part of it so I will assume you thought I meant no unlocks at all. Personally I don't care too much about unlocks other than the cost incurred (cost for un-id's items) - however you want to handle them is fine by me. I only PvP with my PvE chars and am mostly PvE - the main thing I use unlocks for is to pay attention if I need to re-evaluate my build for a new skill I know nothing about or add the next better item mod to my weapon

(well, sorta, but you get my drift on that). That statement I made was weak (with respect to how much I want it, was trying to keep some balance based on my experience) to begin with.

Hopefully this made sense - it was late when I posted the first message, even later now.

Manic Smile · Jan 17, 2006, 12:07 PM // 12:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akhilleus

i personally know of over 2 dozen people who have reported it, and again, all he had to say was that its possible, listing the details was unneccisary.

people already knew...this isn't new to anyone but the unwashed masses